It is no longer a question of 'win or lose' in IRAQ, it is simply stay or go.

I received the following response to a request for what victory in Iraq entails (my comments follow each point);

1) A rebuilt infrastructure
That we destroyed by believing Bush's lies. If we are replacing what we destroyed...THAT IS NOT VICTORY, that is very close, however, to an apology.

2) A stable democracy that will/does not kill its own people.
An impossible feat, there are NO GUARANTEES that the democracy will stand 10, 20 or 100 years from now, without a large consistent military presence...surely you don't think that ALL of the opposition to peace and stability is gone?

3) A stable Iraq that does not work with any terrorist organization.
Another impossibility... the government may not officially support or harbor terrorists, but if they can't clamp down on what is going on in the country now, even with the surge and a somewhat stable government in power, then what will happen without the presence of the US military?

4) Create a professional military that is strong enough to defend itself from all threats both foreign and domestic
Something else we destroyed and would not have to replace, if we hadn't done such a bangup job.

5) The continued killing of terrorists
By who? And what if a terrorist backed regime takes over?....why would they kill themselves?

Listen it is no longer a question of win or lose and it never has been, the only reason that Iraq is the way it is now is due to our military presence (and that covers both the positives and the negatives). When we leave, whether anyone likes it or not nature will take its course. The only way to prevent that is to stay indefinitely. Staying indefinitely is neither a win nor a loss...there is NO WIN OR LOSE....only Stay OR GO! Get it?